In this insightful conversation, Hussain Amarshi, the founder and president of Mongrel Media, reflects on his nearly 30-year journey in the film distribution industry. From the company’s early days of bringing the best of world cinema to Canadian audiences to navigating the rapidly changing dynamics of the global film market, Amarshi shares his experiences, challenges, and perspectives on the future of cinema. He discusses Mongrel Media’s evolving criteria for film selection, the impact of streaming services, and the unique challenges of distributing Canadian and foreign films in a market heavily influenced by American trends. Amarshi also offers his thoughts on the “eventization” of cinema, the influence of film festivals, and the future of independent films in an industry facing significant disruption. This interview provides a rare and candid look into the mind of one of Canada’s leading figures in film distribution.
Amir Ganjavie, UniversalCinema Magazine (UM): Could you introduce yourself and tell us about your position in your organization?
Hussain Amarshi (HA): My name is Hussein Amarshi and I’m the founder and president of Mongrel Media. A company that I set up in 1994, and will be 30 years old, next year.
(UM): What criteria does Mongrel Media typically use when selecting movies to distribute? Is there a specific definition or standard for what constitutes a ‘good’ movie that makes it suitable for your company?”
(HA): It changes. You know, when I started the company, the theme was to bring the best of World Cinema to Canada. That’s how we started, and the very first film that I distributed was a Tunisian film called Les Silences du Palais, Silences of the Palace. So, that’s how we started with a Tunisian film. Then we did Israeli film, Cuban film, French films, and Iranian films.
So, I started with Gabbeh and The Moment of Innocence, these are Makhmalbaf’s films and then, Makhmalbaf’s daughter I think was one of the films that we had. And it was like bringing the World Cinema; Tunisian films, Korean films, and that kind of stuff. Over the years, things have changed of course. We have grown, we started doing a lot of Canadian films, which we still do, we do about four to five Canadian films a year.
We do documentaries, both Canadian and International. We have partnerships with a number of U.S. companies, including Sony Pictures Classics. So, since around 2000, which is over 20 years we have had partnership with Sony Pictures Classics. So whatever Sony Pictures Classics pickup, we distribute them in Canada. We also do the same thing with Magnolia Films out of U.S.
We work with IFC, we work with A24, we work with the NEON, so different companies we’ve done business with over the years. So that’s one source of how we pick up our films because as you know, when you go to the film market and the market North America is sold as one territory, most of the time, not all the time, but most of the times, if we want to have those films, we have to work with U.S. partner.
So, we have a diverse range of films now and currently the driver, many times, is “How can we sell this film?”, you know, “How do we get people to see it?” Most of the time right now the answer is we’ll have to be of a streaming service or a TV service and so whatever we pick up has to be something that we think those people, the buyers at streaming services or TV, will want those films.
So, it’s limiting in some ways. I mean, you know, the kinds of things that we were doing 25 years ago, we would probably not be able to do those films because the market is not there anymore. The zeitgeist, of course, has changed. People’s tastes have changed. The kinds of films that are getting laid has changed, which is all good. When I started out in 1994, there were very, very few opportunities to see foreign language films. Now, you know, I mean there are all kinds of services which let you watch a lot.
I mean not the archived films. There’s a lot of foreign language content right now, available on Netflix, on Amazon, and all these places. So, things have changed and we have to just keep up with whatever the market trends are.
(UM): And what is the status of film distribution in Canada?
(HA): Well, historically, I mean the fact is that Canada being so close to U.S. is driven by the whatever the U.S. trends are. Most of our entertainment news comes from U.S. sources. So, if a film is opening in the U.S. and the actors, and the directors are all over on the talk shows or, you know, on the media and whatever it is that all comes here, right?
If you want to open a film only in Canada that does not have a U.S. release, it’s very hard to generate the kind of interest. And plus, because in limited sources, people are watching American shows. So, if you’re not on those American shows, they would not know. We don’t have the talk shows, we don’t have the media. So that is a problem. So that’s one of the realities. Now, of course, you know, given that we share the same language more or less we have similar taste as Americans.
Most of the people in Canada, just like in the US, will be watching Hollywood films. That’s the nature of the beast. There’s nothing that you can do about that. We did the independent sector, of course, the American Indie films, that succeed in U.S. generally tend to do well in Canada as well. Canadian films are always in English Canada, not in Quebec but in English Canada, we have always had this challenge. How do you get people interested in Canadian films when you don’t have the channels to promote it, right? You don’t have the talk shows, you don’t have a star system. You can’t really build up, so that’s always been a challenge.
We have had successes in the past. I would say we didn’t have challenges with the last few years since COVID. But before that, we’ve had successes with songs by guitar method, by Sarah Porie, by Michael McGavin. We’ve had a number of films that did well. They were Canadian stories, and we were able to position as Canadian films.
We had some stars in certain cases, not always and we’re able to promote them well and that there was an audience for it. Not always easy to finance those films. That’s the main problem, you know, if it’s a Canadian story with Canadian Stars it’s very difficult to find that set completely. You can finance it up to a certain level, but then there’s always a gap and if it’s a film that does not have the possibility of an international attention, it’s hard to finance the source.
(UM): Is the absence of strong support for Canadian cinema linked to Canada’s political culture, given the perceived lack of a distinct national identity in comparison to countries like France and Italy, which actively promote their national identities through cinema?”
(HA): We have Quebec Cinema, which is real. That is a national Cinema. So, Quebec has always had that strong Cinema. The have a star system, their actors are very well-known, they have a media, there’s a whole culture around it so they can support their own Cinema. English Canada is always going to be challenged because we are right next to the U.S., right? So, some of our most talented people, Canadian actors, writers, directors are working in Hollywood. It’s very easy for them. It’s only a few-hour flight.
(UM): Yes.
(HA): So, we will always have that challenge, whether we have multiculturalism or not, it would not matter. Multiculturalism, in fact, gives us some kind of advantage. In that, we have a multitude of stories to draw on. We do have audiences as well, like there’s a large Iranian diasporic audience, a large South Asian audience, a large, you know, other cultural audiences that we have not completely tapped into, yet. I think as the Canadian population increases, and the population increases primarily through immigrations, we will have lot more of those audiences and we will be able to have enough to be able to succeed with films.
Of course, the kinds of stories that we tell will also have to reflect that multicultural reality. We have not done that well yet. It doesn’t mean we will not. We’ve had some successes. Deepa Mehta who has had a career of making South Asian stories that have appealed to larger audiences, but we don’t have that many other directors of that stature yet.
(UM): Yes, but even in Quebec, the situation doesn’t always appear promising. This is evident when we consider that one of Quebec’s most talented directors, Xavier Dolan, has decided to step away from filmmaking.
(HA): Yeah. But there are many other film makers. I mean, the thing is that, at one point before COVID, a good percentage of the box office was coming from Quebec films in Quebec. Even now, I mean, some of the more successful indie films, are Quebec films not American-Indie films. This was not Indie films so that’s different but there are a lot of Quebec films that are doing extremely well in Quebec in theaters.
(UM): I’ve noticed that Barbie wasn’t just a movie; it became more of an event. People go to the cinema to take pictures with banners and other related items. It appears that the distribution of movies has evolved into something of an event itself. I’m curious if you’ve incorporated this concept into your distribution plans and what your thoughts are on the idea of ‘Event Cinema’?”
(HA): I agree. In the context, if you think about it as a consumer, if you’re just into films, you have access to so many films right now, more than ever in history; I mean, everything is more, right?
On your phone, you have access to thousands and thousands of titles, right? So, in that context, you should know that people want stories, of course, but they can get stories from all kinds of places. So, what will it take to make them come to a cinema? And that’s the real challenge. And that’s why the “Eventization” of movie going is one way to get people out. Now, the problem of course, is that you can’t make an event for every film, not every film lens itself to an event movie.
The economics of doing movies is also very different. You can’t spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on an independent indie film that has limited potential. So, one has to adjust one’s expectations based on the film. Not every film is going to be wide-filmed and we can’t make films for everybody. Every story is not meant for everybody. You have to know who your story is for and then build around that. So, if you want to make a film that will appeal to your friends and family, by all means. If you finance it, go ahead. But then to expect that film to have a wider appeal is a mistake and you can’t be driven by that. Not every film is going to succeed. Not everybody is going to succeed in life. Everybody finds their place. Everybody has a place in the world.
Same with films. Same with all other cultural productions. Be it books, be it music, whatever it is, right? I mean, we know that 90% of the eyeballs or 90% of music is going to come from the 10, not even 10, like 20 artists or 20 films will be 90% of the box office in any given year. That’s the reality, right?
So, one has know that with indie films, you have to be very specific. Like, “What is my potential audience and how can I reach that audience?” In some level it’s a very simple calculation. Not easy to answer the question. But the question is, “who is the audience for this film and how do I get that audience excited enough to come to see it in a cinema and not wait till it gets on the phone.” Right?
For Indie Cinemas, that’s where the award system, that’s where the festivals, the Oscar campaigns, those are the ways in which we are able to elevate those films to get more eyeballs. That’s the reason why filmmakers and distributors and everybody wants to play films at festivals. Among the hundreds of films that people have choices of, what will be the 10 films or 12 films that will stand out in any given year?
(UM): While I was at Venice Film Festival, I noticed discussions surrounding controversial filmmakers such as Polanski and Woody Allen, who were being distributed there. I’m curious to know if you’ve ever considered distributing movies by figures like Woody Allen or Polanski in Canada.
(HA): We have done a number of Woody Allen films in our career. But given Woody’s and the controversy around , people don’t go out, that’s the problem. Just because it’s Woody Allen, people will not go out. Unless, I mean of course, if Woody Allen makes a masterpiece tomorrow my feeling is that people will go see it. But if it’s not a masterpiece, if it’s just like, “Oh okay, it’s another film by Woody Allen, this is his 50th film.”
I don’t know, I don’t know why would people go and given that… Yeah, I mean that loyalty to him is question now. People are not as loyal to him and the reality is that people have a lot of choices. There will be a core audience but that core audience is going to be very small. Polanski also, similar story. Polanski, if he’s going to make his best film right now then it’s a different story. But if he’s going to make another film, just because it’s Polanski, there’s no reason.
And then given the cultural moment we are in right now where the general audience feeling is that people who are like publicly flawed. I mean, everybody’s flawed. So, it’s not like some other filmmakers have to be purer than everybody else. It is a mistake. Nobody should expect, particularly people who are in the arts to follow the straight path. There’s no straight path so to speak. People are seekers for questioning all kinds of things, and will always question all kinds of norms. Because they cannot be constrained by the norms of this larger society. We have to allow artists to be free. We have to, with the quest that we all want to be free. But particularly, they will be led by the artists really given the freedom. So, we cannot constrain on the other hand. We have to also recognize that most of the people are pretty constrained by the rules and they follow the rules.
(UM): How does recognition at events like Cannes or TIFF impact the distribution of movies in Canada?
(HA): Yeah. If you win the Palme d’Or Yes. Absolutely. It raises your profile considerably. If you win the Regard Prize or Directors’ Fortnight, it doesn’t necessarily translate to box office. Tiff, the audience awards, yeah. that moves the needle. Everything else little bit but not by much. Venice? No. All these eventually have a process, right? So, you win something, you get some recognition. That recognition then hopefully translates to year-end Top Critics notifications. And then, hopefully on Oscar nomination. So that’s the trajectory if you get to that point. Yeah, certainly it does help at every level. Now, of course, foreign National Cinema category for the Oscars, the five nominations. If you get a nomination there’s no guarantee that that’s going to translate into box office,
(UM): Oh okay.
(HA): Not anymore. Maybe it used to many years ago but not anymore. I mean, if it wins, yes, for sure it does move the needle but does just getting a nomination for the International Cinema? Not always. It is helpful of course; we all want that because it does give you the extra push especially if you are in release around that time. If you get the nomination and the film opens in the cinema just as the nominations come out, it helps. People are interested because it’s in the news.
(UM): As we conclude our conversation, I’m curious if there’s anything else you believe might be interesting or important for our audiences to know.
(HA): My sense is that we are seeing a major upheaval in our industry. Particularly, I think the entire industry as we know, they’re two strikes on right now. They’re driven by all kinds of new ideas and new technologies that are waiting around the corner and are going to be a big disruptor in our business.
Our business has been disrupted over and over and over again. But we’re looking at a major disruption right now, and we’ve seen that, plus on top of that we had COVID which made the cinema closed or whatever it did. People were getting out of the habit for extended time when the cinemas were closed. People found other ways, of course, that was the golden moment for the streaming services, because that allowed people to stay sane and they were able to see the world sitting in their homes.
So to get them out of their homes again, to get them back into the habit of going to the cinema is a massive challenge.
And nobody knows really how that is going to unfold.And there’s no guarantee like you know every art form has been transformed over time. Opera at one point was what Cinema is right now, what Barbies and Oppenheimers are. That’s the kind of popularity Opera had, right? That was the public entertainment. That is no longer the case. It’s all very, very rarefied.
There is no guarantee that Cinema won’t go that route too. It can be that route. You do the event-kind of Cinema, you spend millions of dollars, the tickets will be $100 and people will pay that because that will be a special event that they’ll go to. They pay lots of money to come to festivals, right? Because it’s an event.
So, the question is, how are we going to find a business model in this context, where we had a very sweet spot at one point especially for Indie films, like let’s say in the early 90s, 2000s, where you had the combination of theatrical and a vibrant theatrical marketplace. There was a vibrant VOD marketplace, people liked DVDs, DVDs were getting sold, VOD was rising, pay-per-view. Everything was there and then there was television and then pay TV, HBO, and all that stuff. So that was a golden moment. Now that moment is over, the question is “what is the next moment?”, we do not know. And if there are any filmmakers reading this. It’s the time that the new ideas have to come out. What are those new ideas? Is it a new way of telling stories? Did you see the new Harmony Korine film, Aggro Dr1ft. Now, the question is, again, will that Harmony Korine film play on Netflix or on Crave or on HBO? Probably not, because it’s not meant for that media. Because the challenge is, can you make a film that can sustain itself in a theatrical context only? I don’t know the answer to that. And if it’s not able to draw theatrical audiences, is it meant for streaming? Which is where most of the films are landing anyways right now. So, if we want to figure out a new way for people to come to theatres, we’ll have to figure out a new way of story-telling which compels them to come to a cinema. So that’s the challenge.
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