Universal Cinema Film & TV Journal’s Amir Ganjavie interviewed Elliot Grove, founder of the Raindance Film Festival. Their conversation touches on the selection process, championing first time filmmakers, and using AI as a tool for filmmakers.
Amir Ganjavie, UniversalCinema Magazine (UM): Can you introduce yourself and tell me about your role in your organization?
Elliot Grove (EG): My name’s Elliot Grove. I’m the founder of the Raindance Film Festival, and now the Chief Executive Officer, which means I get to deal with the money side as well as everything else.
(UM): And in terms of the selection process, can you tell me how does the selection happen in your festival? Do you have programmers specializing in different areas? Who is making the final decision?
(EG): We get many films. They come through submissions, or they come through researching production companies and sales agents and so on, and festivals. We were just at Cannes a couple of weeks ago. And these films come in and once they are viewed, every film that comes in, is always watched at least three times. So, let’s say you send in a film, and I say no, someone else might say yes, and the third person might say yes. So, two yeses. It keeps going.
We’re very fortunate in that we probably have as many, if not more, submissions than any major film festival in the world. It’s a filtering process, filtering, filtering, filtering. When your film, Amir, hits near the top of the list, we consider the marketing promotion of your film because we’re independent. We don’t have government finance. We eat what we kill. And if no one comes to the screening of your film and someone here doesn’t eat at Raindance, we would work with you to see what audiences you have, even if you’re not from Britain. If it’s a topic we would go to relevant charities or organizations here to see if they’d be interested in supporting the film. That’s how we work.
We also invite anyone who acquires films to the screening of your film, that they might be interested in your documentary, your feature, your short, or whatever it is because we think that’s part of our role too. Our role to you as a filmmaker is to deliver a room full of people to appreciate your work and also who might be interested in paying you to distribute in China or America or Europe or wherever. And also, to the audience, the people off the street who hear about an independent film festival, and they come, we need to deliver them an entertaining film, the way I define entertainment, something that amuses or annoys or creates debate. That’s the function of our festival.
(UM): What makes your festival different from other festivals when you are trying to fund the festival? What was the vision that you had?
(EG): Raindance has always championed debut filmmakers, first-time filmmakers, and my first friend was a guy called Edgar Wright before he made anything. This is in the early 1990s. What makes us differen is first of all, we champion first-time filmmakers, even though they may not have all of the skills that their more esteemed and seasoned colleagues might have. The second thing is that we also champion these stories about whistleblowers by whistleblowers, the films about social impact. And often, the films that we’ve screened over the years are the sorts of films that would not be accepted into the mainstream film festival simply because the topics were too extreme. The third thing that we try to do is make sure that the films that we do screen are entertaining, films that take people into difficult positions, difficult topics, but are still well worth watching.
(UM): You mention that you are interested in film that is extreme, at the same time entertaining. But they are not always compatible. Don’t you agree?
(EG): How a film becomes entertaining despite the topic or genre is to tell a story from beginning, middle, and end, and that is how I define entertainment. You don’t need to laugh. You might cry. You might shake with fear or even anger. But if it’s a story that needs to be told, needs to be seen, we will show it despite it’s political whatever. We were the first festival in New York to show LGBT. We showed films about public executions in America and Iran and Iraq and all kinds of stuff. From ’93, we were showing films about climate change before that became a hot topic.
And you, as a filmmaker, I mean, what can you teach us about the world? We’ve never needed storytellers more than we need them now because people like you will help me and the general audience process all this, pardon my language, bullshit political, economic climate change, all these changes that are confronting us. I think cinema is probably the best way to teach people about what’s happening, other cultures, other religions, other racial conflicts, or whatever it is. Cinema is a very powerful storytelling tool. And we learn about the future and the past through a story, do we not?
(UM): Yeah, that’s very good point. Now suppose that, for example, I’m a controversial filmmaker, suppose that I am Polanski and submit a movie to your festival or Woody Allen. Would you accept my film even if it is a good film?
(EG): The short answer is yes. The long answer is of course you’ve just described a whole variety of films. If you look at music, Michael Jackson had a thing with children, but his music is fantastic. So, do we stop listening to Michael Jackson because of his personal past or not? I think we need to process exactly what the background is of the film. But a film that comes to us right out of the box, we look at it and it is very, very controversial. If we think, again, it has a good story, if it needs to be shown, if we think our audience will learn in a positive way about an issue or topic, then yes, we will show it regardless of its so-called whatever you call it. Let me say it another way. Raindance exists to show new work by new filmmakers. We also exist to foster debate. We want to get people talking about the issues and thinking about the issues that you and I have to deal with every single day.
(UM): You were saying that you are very into first time filmmakers, I had this conversation with a friend, and he pointed out two very interesting things. When you are a first-time filmmaker, you spend lots of time making your movie. But sometimes, when you are going to do the second or the third, you don’t have that much time or that much passion. And that’s when we can really understand what kind of filmmaker you are. So, I’m just curious when you are talking about first time filmmakers, how do you define it exactly?
(EG): It doesn’t need to be the virgin first film. It’s that you’re early in your career. Our tagline since 1993 has been “discover, be discovered.” And that relates both to you as a filmmaker to be discovered, to get distribution, to get money. It also means to the audience to find the hottest, newest, freshest, boldest, new talent. So, that’s what I mean by first time. It’s not virgin.
(UM): Suppose that we have a film that is being affiliated or is being purchased by a distributor company. Will you take that more seriously than a film with no affiliation? I heard this from filmmakers that sometimes, they told me they can get more easily to the festival when there is a distribution company behind their film.
(EG): Well, I know exactly what you’re saying. The short answer is no. I’ve had films with major Hollywood stars. There are passion projects that we’ve said no to because the films were not entertaining. I’ve also had films from big distribution companies who want to use us as a launchpad for their film. So, it’s a marketing strategy. We usually say no to that unless the film happens to fit the tagline of the festival, which is “discover, be discovered.” But some festivals will say, “Oh, you’re with Warner Brothers. We’ll show your film.” Look at the Cannes Film Festival, for example, they’re all playing on closing night…
(UM): Big films.
(EG): …all the big films. But remember, that model’s a little different because the big Hollywood companies that bring those films to a festival like Cannes or Berlin or Toronto, they pay 50 to 100 to $200,000 or pounds or euros, bringing in the talent, throwing a big, lavish after party, et cetera. So, that’s a different model. We’re not in that category and never will be. But we judge films regardless of where they come from based on the story and the entertainment values.
(UM): I’m just curious about the educational section of your festival. Do you have, for example, a section for kids in your festival?
(EG): We have had in the past something called Raindance Kids for kids as young as eight years old. We’ve had to stop that during COVID, and I haven’t managed to get that going again. But I’m talking to all kinds of people through this winter about redoing that. Our education program is a big part of what we do. We’re the only major international film festival with film degrees. No one else does that.
(UM): Do you offer cash prizes or theatrical screening? How are you trying to help new filmmakers when they get awards or recognition at your festival?
(EG): Sadly, at the moment, we can’t offer cash awards, but what we do offer is publicity. If someone says Raindance, everyone looks at it. Most films at Raindance, when they get accepted, as soon as they publicize that, they’ll get 30 or 40 other festival invites because they think if it’s good enough to be in Raindance, we want it too. So, we offer that. I mean, I’m still working with filmmakers that I met 25 years ago, helping them with their films. So, that’s how we help. I would love to be able to give a cash prize, but simply, at the moment, we haven’t done that. The last time we did that was in 2007 or 2008.
(UM): Do you offer accommodation or flight, stuff like that?
(EG): We offer a hospitality package, that’s true.
(UM): In terms of quota, do you have any kind of race, gender, or geographical quota in your festival?
(EG): No, but we try to do 50-50 male-female. We’re above 42% female at the moment. We have a lot of LGBTQ films. I don’t know the exact number, at least probably a third. Also, in the last five years, we’re 50-50 documentary to narrative. We also have a virtual reality strand, which is very successful. The filmmakers that submit come from 141 countries. So, we’re spoiled for choice, really.
(UM): If you have a choice between two films, one film is being submitted by a female from a bourgeois class, a very young and established actress, and the other one is being submitted by a poor, aged, white guy from a rural area. And you have a choice between these two, will you only look at it, for example, by gender, or do you consider other factors like class? I’m just curious when you are trying to talk about diversity, how you are trying to balance different aspects: race, class, and gender?
(EG): We’re always interested in the smaller groups of filmmakers, the poor ones, if you like. We always give that priority. But just because you’re a big name does not mean to say you get a green pass to Raindance at all. Again, it’s based on the quality of your work. We find that a filmmaker shooting on a cell phone, with no money can often make a fresher, more interesting film than someone with a budget of millions and a cast of thousands. So, we’re always interested in the fresh, new work. Raindance films are dream topics. They’re made under extreme conditions, and they’re extremely entertaining. I keep coming back to that word.
(UM): Your focus on entertaining is very interesting and also, at the same time, being radical. I see that you have branches operating in other cities when I read. I’m just curious if you can say a little bit more about the global branch of Raindance.
(EG): Raindance is about building community. The only festival is in London, but in other cities like New York, Montreal, Toronto, Berlin, Vancouver, LA, Brussels, well, Paris has gone quiet, they’re just groups of filmmakers, like-minded people like yourself, getting together. We try to organize a few events. Any money we make keeps the lights on in that particular city. It’s not a money making thing, sadly, I guess. But filmmakers or should I say, storytellers, utilizing moving images is a very interesting demographic to us. What city are you in? Is it Montreal?
(UM): I’m in Toronto.
(EG): In Toronto, for example, we have a small hub – well, one of our largest hubs is in Toronto. We’ll be doing a bunch of events. We’re planning a whole bunch of stuff around TIFF. Not at TIFF because TIFF wants a lot of money to put their logo on anything. But during TIFF, we’re going to do a party and a series of seminars. I’m going to come over, do a couple cheap, cheap classes, how to break in, and so on. It’s about building a community. We found that whenever we go to a city like Toronto and build a community, more filmmakers send their films to London, hoping to get into the festival in London and many do. Let me start again. Our hubs feed into London, the talent feeds into London. And if we can help, we do. We have a small production company, which is about to get, I hope, a bit larger. We view the people like you sitting in Toronto or other cities to be a really important part of that. Because the other way is to run a very big expensive ad on the CBC or the Globe and Mail newspaper, and hope that you see it or not. But we think to do it sort of grassroots is much more interesting.
(UM): In terms of funding, you mentioned that you mostly rely on non-governmental support, through private sponsorship. You told me that you are also the CEO, so you can say a little bit about financing and structure.
(EG): The Raindance Enterprise has a school with BA, MA, and a two-year college degrees, we call here a higher national degree. And that profit, if you like, helps support the festival. But commercial sponsorship is important. We’ve had many major brands in the past like Nikon, Panasonic, and even Lexus, the car for about three, four years. We’re always looking for commercial sponsors who believe that by associating with us, it will make them look good.
(UM): In terms of COVID and its challenges, did it, in any way, change the structure of your festivals? For example, some festivals like Tribeca or Sundance right now have an online portion as well as live events. So, I’m just curious, did it have any kind of long impact on your festival and its structure?
Elliot: Yeah. We have been doing online festivals since 2007, but it’s something called Raindance TV, that went quiet in 2011, and then we started again in 2015. So, when COVID hit in 2020, we were very used to online. So, 2020, we were totally online. In ’21, we were 50-50 online. And then last year, we were 80% in-person, 20% online. This year, we are also planning to maintain the online distribution of these wonderful films that we get from all over the world. I guess what COVID taught us is that it is possible to do things online. For example, today, you did not have to fly to London. I did not have to fly to Toronto. We could talk for free, basically. So that’s good. What’s bad about it is, although I see your picture, your hair, and your room, it’s so much better to speak face-to-face.
(UM): Yeah, I know.
(EG): I think, as people become more used to post-COVID, online will be… It’s always going to be there now. I think what COVID did is make the Netflix world happen much quicker because you couldn’t go out, so you’re watching Netflix. The online screening distribution platforms came forward probably about five years ago. If we did not have COVID, I think Netflix would be much smaller right now. But because of COVID, they went really big. I don’t know.
(UM): Some programmers told me right now, the biggest challenge for them is to bring the audience into the theater after COVID. Some are struggling.
(EG): That’s true. Cinemas in the UK are 80% what they were before COVID.
(UM): Does it cause problems in terms of financing for your festival? How much are you relying on ticket sales?
(EG): Ticket sales has always been a very small portion of our festival budget, about 5%. The rest comes from private donations and sponsorship.
(UM): I’m just curious about new technologies or new ways of making films. How are you trying to promote or talk about this aspect in your festival? Do you have any section dedicated to new technologies?
(EG): We have industry days. This year, we’re planning two days. One on web three and one on artificial intelligence. It just boggles me. In 1994, we’re probably the first festival in the world to show a film shot on home video. I had to take my VCR from home, plug it into the projector, and play it that way. It was really quite crazy, but we did that. So, we’re always interested in new technology.
Now, I’ve been doing this for over 30 years. The first 10 years, it was 35 millimeter or super 16, the next 10 years, it was electronic, and the last 10 years has been streaming. It seems like every eight or 10 years, we get new technology. And last week, Apple, with the new VR, AI. We’ve been doing augmented – we’ve been doing VR since 2016 and showing that work. It’s very interesting.
(UM): What o you think about the future of cinema and AI? Do you feel it will impact the festivals in any way or the quality of the script? I’m just curious if you have any thoughts about AI in the future.
(EG): People say that AI is going to ruin the human race in two years if we don’t do something. I don’t understand that. I think from what little I’ve seen of ChatGPT and some of the other programs, it’s a very interesting tool that reminds me of spellcheck 30 years ago on your computer. It’s just like a super spell check. When the spell checking came out, they fired all the typesetters in the newspapers and magazines here. And they said, “How can you get a computer to do a spell check?” But as you know, you can do a spell check.
(UM): Easily.
(EG): I mean, who would think? That’s like early, early, early AI, if you like, or predictive text. But the whole future of artificial intelligence is fascinating to me. It’s also frightening in the amount of work it can do. I think people like you, filmmakers, will learn how to use AI as a tool in the same way as you use coloring and sound, and all that. It is just another tool. But other than that, I don’t know enough about it to really comment except to say that I know that enough people want to learn about it.
(UM): My final question, what is your vision for the future of the festival? Do you have any kind of vision that in 10 years you want Raindance to become?
(EG): Raindance will never be big like TIFF. I hope it’s going to be like the boutique clothing store that you see on Queen Street West or Yorkville where you want to get the coolest T-shirt. You’re even willing to pay a bit more for that T-shirt. But when you get it, you know that no one else has it in the world. And that’s where I see the ecosystem of Raindance.
© 2020-2023. UniversalCinema Mag.