During the Venice Film Festival, Universal Film & Television Journal’s Amir Ganjavie interviewed Flavio Armone, who co-founded the Torino, Italy-based Lights On in 2015.
Amir Ganjavie, UniversalCinema Magazine (UM): Can you start by telling us a little about yourself and your company?
Flavio Armone (FA): My background is in festival programming. I worked for many years for the Torino Film Festival and the Torino Gay & Lesbian Film Festival which is now called the Lovers Film Festival. Then with two other friends form the industry, we decided to found Lights On because during my time in programming, I realized that many movies, especially shorts, after 1, 2, 3 festivals, kind of get lost. The directors/producers didn’t follow up with other submissions, or other festivals, and I thought it was a shame because there are a lot of good films out there, features and shorts, that deserve to be seen by people. So, I thought why we don’t try to help movies get more selections and help them travel more all around the world?
So we came up with the idea to create this small lineup, and we called the company Lights On. We mainly started working with short films and the core of the business stayed with shorts until 2020. Then we expanded a little bit with feature films, but we improved the feature film part in the last couple of years after the pandemic.
At the moment, we handle about four or five feature films per year. Our goal is to keep the numbers very low. For feature films, we mainly work with first-time and second-time directors. Not only that, but that’s what we are mainly looking for. Shorts remain the main core for Lights On, and we work with about 15 to 20 shorts depending on the year. Shorts from all over the world, no matter the experience level of the director, we work with first-time directors but we work also with very experienced directors.
Usually, we start working on a project before the World Premiere in order to create the festival strategy from the very beginning. It’s very uncommon for us to join a project after the World Premiere. And basically, what we do is to target the festivals that we think are more suitable for a specific film. This means that we try to get the best World Premiere possible for the movie, and then we start submitting and proposing the film to all the other festivals out there, always considering factors like the national premiere and geographical premiere.
I mean, our job is not only filling in the submission forms or sending our films to festivals through platforms like FilmFreeway but also contacting the programmers and trying to get their attention on our movies.
Once the movie is selected, of course, we have to follow up with all the materials, including the screening copies. We try also to make some promotion of the film through our social media channels, platforms like Facebook, and Instagram. We invest a lot of time, for example, in Instagram posts. We think it’s nice for directors, especially for short film directors because they are generally younger, so it’s often their first experience and important to have some kind of promotion, to be known somehow. Other than the festivals’ distribution, there is the sales part of our job.
(UM): What’s the difference between your work before as a programmer and now in distribution?
(FA): Well, if the festival you are working for requires some kind of premiere you have to keep that in mind. If your festival is audience-oriented, maybe you are not looking for experimental or hybrid themes but more comedies and horror to please your audience.
As a distributor, you can try to get in the head of the festival programmers and think if a movie can be interesting for Venice, Berlinale, or other festivals. But for me it’s more if I like the movie, after that I start thinking to which festivals it could fit in. So first I have to like the film, I must feel something during the screening. I must feel involved/connected with the story, the directing, and the actors.
(UM): And what is a definition of a good movie you have in mind when looking for films for your company?
(FA): Well, it’s different if we are looking at a feature or a short. Let’s say that with a short, I can be a little bit more free to choose. With a feature, it’s a little bit more complicated because you have to make an investment so it’s always a little tricky to find the right one: a film that fits your lineup, that you feel can be coherent with the other movies you’re already working with, and a film that, at the same time, you think can work with festivals/audience. But the first factor is if we like the movie. It’s also a matter of a combination of tastes of all the people involved in Lights On. We try to have a shared opinion on the movies we want to work with. Generally speaking I can say that we are more interested in fiction and hybrid forms rather than animation and pure documentary.
(UM): Do you work mostly with Italian filmmakers?
(FA): It’s the opposite. We have more international projects than Italians. Of course we work also with Italian directors and producers but I would say that 80% of the lineup is made by international filmmakers. Filmmakers from all over the world, South America, USA, other countries in Europe and Asia. We have a lot of Chinese filmmakers we work with. We recenly won the Golden Leopard in Locarno with a film which is a coproduction Singapore and Indonesia; Dreaming & Dying by Nelson Yeo.
Nelson, and his producer Si En Tan (from Momo Film Co), are the perfect example of one of our main goals here at Lights On: following a path together from shorts to features. We worked with Nelson’s previous shorts (produced by Momo Film Co) and we are now handling his first feature.
In the end, I would say our lineup is pretty much international.
(UM): Given your experience in Italy, can you share anything that makes that market different than other markets?
(FA): We have this very big television audience in Italy and there are a lot of Italian TV series with very popular (in Italy) actors and actresses. So it happens that producers try to involve these TV stars in feature films in order to exploit their popularity. So, the Italian scene is often made up of TV stars who become cinema stars.
There are a lot of very good Italian movies and directors, but the Italian cinema is mostly made by comedies. These films are not my cup of tea. I’m not a big fan of Italian cinema’s panorama in general. Of course there are some great directors like Pietro Marcello, Jonas Carpignano or Michelangelo Frammartino to name a few. And there are also some young interesting directors out there like Pietro Castellitto (at Venice with Enea).
(UM): And what about arthouse cinema, is Italy open to it like in France?
(FA): No, not very much. Luckily now we have more chances to watch arthouse movies with streaming platforms. Italian theatrical distribution is mainly made by Hollywood movies, by big films. Other movies rarely get to be screened in cinemas. If it happens, it’s just a few screens in the big city and for a couple of days. So, it’s a very limited distribution.
(UM): And at what stage of production do you get involved? Do you come on while it is still in the script stage, or only after it is complete?
(FA): At the moment we prefer to watch a final cut. To be sure of the movie. Sometimes it’s complicated to judge a movie from the script. Working with only four or five projects per year, it means we must be completely sure of a project. And, in order to be completely sure, you have to watch the final version. I mean, it can be the best story, but cinema is also a visual art.
There are some specific cases, like directors we have worked together before on a short and they are going into feature film. In this case, we are more willing to start a path together during the preproduction/production phase. For example, we are already collaborating with a feature film that is supposed to be made in 2025/2026. But the film is from a director we have worked with before. We worked with him (and the producer) for both of his previous shorts. So, it’s a little bit different because we grew up together so it’s like a normal continuation of the work for us.
(UM): I’ve heard distribution of shorts is very difficult and usually there is no return on investment. Can you speak on that?
(FA): Of course, it depends on how successful the short is, and how many awards the film wins during the festivals’ round. There are some factors that can influence the incomes. But generally speaking it’s complicated. The revenue you can generate with a short movie mostly come from money awards from festivals and sometimes from festivals’ screening fees, even is a not common practice for festivals to pay fees for shorts. And then there are the sales. there are some interesting buyers for shorts, but they are a few.
Buyers for shorts are mainly the TV channels and they receive a lot of shorts every day. For example, Canal Plus can take a limited number of shorts per year and I guess they receive 30 shorts or more per day for consideration. But you have to try because you never know.
There are also the VOD channels but they work mainly on revenue share. So, at the end of the day, the share you get after all the deductions it’s really low, sometimes it’s not enough to pay for a pizza!
(UM): And how do you pick up the movies? Is it the filmmakers who directly submit the projects or do you go and find them?
(FA): It depends. When we started the company, we were doing a lot of research. Now it’s more receiving screeners from producers we already worked with or it’s by word of mouth.
(UM): And you’ve been in this business for several years, first as a programmer now with your own company, what kind of evolution have you seen in terms of distribution in that time?
(FA): COVID changed the scenario because many festivals were forced to go online. At the beginning it was something new for everyone and many festivals wanted to go online worldwide without any geo-blocking which is a bad thing for films because you risk to lose all your premiere status. Then, after a while, everyone adapted to that situation and the industry was able to find some solutions (like geo-blocking, limited number of views) that are standard solutions now.
The real change now is that, after COVID, people are more used to watching films online. And many festivals kept the online part, which is also a good thing because you’re able to reach more people with your shorts. For example, if your festival is in Milan and you are going online on a very well-known platform in Italy, people from the south of Italy can also watch the short.
I think that one of the main reasons to make a film, whether it’s a feature or short, is bring it to people and online can help with that. So I think that, in the end, it’s a good change.
(UM): And do you have any quotas in terms of race or gender?
(FA): It’s not something that we do on purpose, but we have a lot of female directors in our line up. In Venice we are presenting two shorts selected in Orizzonti, the main competition for short films, and both directors are female. But it’s not something that we keep in mind when we make our selection. I always wonder before I start watching a film, if the director is male or female just to understand how they approach the story, but it’s not a key factor when it comes to decide to propose a collaboration on a film. Luckily, we have a lot of female directors. The lineup is pretty balanced, I should check, but it’s possible we have more female directors than male directors.
(UM): And do you have any advice based on your experience for filmmakers in regards to festivals or sales?
(FA): My main suggestion is to make a good film. I know it’s a little bit vague, but it’s true because the problem nowadays is that the production, especially of shorts, is huge. I don’t know how many shorts are produced every year. We receive about 30-35 shorts per week for consideration. So, the competition is high because everyone wants to be selected in A list festivals, and of course the programming slots available are limited. So, there is a huge competition.
So making a good film with an original story is something that can help you! And don’t think too much about festivals, sales, about what the people would like to see… just make the movies you want to do and test the reactions with festivals. If it doesn’t work, at least you tried with films you feel like yours and not with something you made to please other people. In the end, not everyone is born to be a filmmaker…
Of course, a really important factor is luck: being in the right place at the right moment. And a generic advice, for short movies, is to keep the length of the movie under 20 minutes. This way they can submit to more festivals and, if you increase the number of festivals where you submitted, you have more chances to get selections. A short film longer than 25 minutes can have a difficult life with festivals, unless you manage to get a very good world premiere.
(UM): You mentioned the World Premiere. You mentioned how many submissions and it seems like it must be hard to get into any of the big festivals without big names attached.
(FA): Well, there are a lot of other good festivals. I mean, it’s not like if you don’t manage to get into Venice, Cannes, Toronto, etc., you are done. There are many other options. For example, one of the best festival for shorts is Clermont-Ferrand International Short Film Festival. And you can find good festivals all around the world: in Europe, South America, the USA, and Asia. So even if you don’t get selected in A list festivals or in Clermont-Ferrand, it’s not like the end of the world. There are still chances to build a successful festivals’ run getting other selections in good festivals.
(UM): And does getting into those festivals help their career the same way as getting into Cannes does?
(FA): It can helps. Of course, it helps more than if you don’t get selected! But at the same time, it’s not like: I’m selected in Cannes so the next movie I will direct is an Hollywood movie. It doesn’t work like that. You have always to keep working on your projects: invest time and energy on them. Being selected in Cannes it’s an extraordinary platform: is not only good because you are there showing your short, but you can meet other people from industry. And if you already have a project for your next short or your first feature, it’s a very good occasion to present it and to build new collaborations. A director needs to find a good producer who believes in the project and can help him/her to make the film they want to make.
Because, sometimes at the beginning you have a movie in mind and if things don’t work out with the producer and/or with the budget, in the end the film doesn’t turn out to be so good or like you imagined it. So, it’s also a matter of finding the right producer. It’s also a matter of being patient because financing a short movie can be a long process, not like a feature film, but it takes time as well. If you have a chance to be selected in a good festival where there is a market attached, try to attend it and meet people. it’s important to try to build connections and present your work, who you are, what you have done and what you want to do.
(UM): You mentioned financing a feature can take years, do you recommend making a film on a limited budget, or waiting until you can make the film with a huge and a good cast for your first project?
(FA): My suggestion is to find the right balance. I mean, maybe you won’t be able to get the budget you have in mind at the beginning, but maybe you can get a part of it. If you think you can make it work with that budget, just go for it and don’t wait.
(UM): In your experience, how important is a star for a project?
(FA): Well, it’s important because it can give you more exposure, especially for a feature film, Maybe it’s less important for festivals, but can be an important factor for sales.
(UM): I heard from distributors that a big name in Italy is only known in Italy but not in other territories.
(FA): That’s true. There are Italian shorts I’ve watched with a very famous Italian actress or actor, so you can play that card in Italy but when it comes to other countries, they just don’t know them. So, it doesn’t change the fact that the short must be good, otherwise, you don’t have any chance to compete internationally with the other films.
(UM): And how has the arrival of streamers changed distribution and profitability?
(FA): I wouldn’t say it’s making a big difference in terms of incomes because often the revenues are low. But, at the same time, you have more chances to make your film seen all around the world because you can reach a larger number of people than you can do through the “live” screening at festivals.
Also, the distribution windows have become really narrow. Sometimes some films are in the cinema just after they premiere at the festivals, stay in the cinema for just a couple of weeks, and then go directly to the streamers. I guess they started doing it during, or just after, COVID and it’s working very well, so I think they will keep doing it like that. What changed is that the theatrical distribution is shorter. And just after that, it starts the online distribution.
(UM): What is your advice for filmmakers trying to approach distributors?
(FA): Maybe the best advice I can give is to try to meet them in person if they can, especially during festivals like this (Venice Film Festival), or festivals where there is a market. Usually, distributors attend those kinds of events. Maybe they can ask for a meeting in advance. And in my opinion, the personal approach is always the best. And it’s not like these distributors are bad people, but they receive a lot of emails. Sometimes it’s really hard to keep up with all the emails and movies they receive. But if you manage to have a personal approach it’s easier for them to remember who you are and to watch your movie.
(UM): Is there anything else you’d like to add?
(FA): For young filmmakers my advice is to try to be themselves, tell the stories they really care about, make the films they want to do. Don’t get discouraged by the many refusals they could get but keep dreaming! If something must happen, it will happen in the end,
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